Thursday, September 4, 2008

Does Palin support Israel?

Well, because she is not a legislator, she really has no voting record. So I don't know.

But here's something interesting. Watch this video: It has absolutely nothing to do with seems like it's just a tourism promo for Juneau. But pay attention to a) what Palin is wearing in her lapel and b) what is in her office window, over her shoulder. Interesting, huh? And it's not like she has an actual reason to be wearing an Israeli flag lapel pin or to have an Israeli flag in the Alaskan governor's office.


Lubab No More said...

You may be interested in this article from The Politico.

Jewish voters may be wary of Palin

WebGirl said...

Oh look, the bottom line is she has no record. A lapel pin and a little flag in her office isn't proof that she will support Israel; I just found the whole thing interesting.

As far as the Politico post:
1) the fact that she's an evangelical Christian actually makes me believe that she will be supportive of Israel. Evangelicals are wildly supportive of Israel, vocally and financially. For all the wrong reasons, but who cares?

2) The fact that the church that she attended once hosted a J4J dude as a guest speaker tells me absolutely nothing. Seriously. If she was a long-standing supporter of J4J, that would be something completely different. And I don't think Obama supporters should be bringing up stuff about speaking in churches, if you know what I mean.

Lubab No More said...

> 1) Evangelicals are wildly supportive of Israel, vocally and financially. For all the wrong reasons, but who cares?

I think it matters because their reason for the support is that they think the Jewish people in Israel is the key to bringing Armageddon. If they think Armageddon is at hand (because, let's say Iran wants to bomb Israel) do they step in and prevent that? I don't know. But a Christan fundamentalist is not the person I want in office at that moment.

> 2) I don't think Obama supporters should be bringing up stuff about speaking in churches, if you know what I mean.

If you support what the guy is saying than I think it matters. If you don't then it doesn't. I get the impression that she has no problem with J4J. Obama on the other hand has been outspoken about the Rev. in Chicago.

WebGirl said...

Because of my previous job, I've had lengthy conversations with lots of evangelicals. To a man, they all support Israel and are committed to her survival. They believe that Israel is key to The Second Coming, not Armageddon, at least, that's my understanding (I ain't no Christian theology expert). They have a very simplistic view of the whole Chosen People thing, but the upshot is, it works for me and it works for Israel. They give MILLIONS of dollars to the State of Israel and it's hard for me to believe that they would do that if they wanted to hasten her destruction to bring on Armageddon.

I suspect that you would rather not have an evangelical in office because the whole hyper-religious thing repels you. I do get that.

Obama disavowed Wright only after he received heaps of criticism for not disavowing him. Remember "I can no more disavow Reverend Wright than I can my own white grandmother." And Obama belonged to this church for TWENTY something years. This Wright person married him, baptized his kids, was (by Obama's own admission) a role model and father figure to him. You want to tell me that Obama didn't know what was going on in that church every Sunday? He didn't hear anything that Wright publicly said? And frankly, if he actually didn't know what was going on, how does that speak to his judgement?

Look, I'm not thrilled that I don't know where Palin stands on Israel, but I do know that McCain is solid on the issue. With Palin it's a wait and see. I'm guessing she'll support McCain's foreign relations platform since she has little experience of her own in this area, but much of this will emerge in the debate. So far, nothing in her background has given me reason to worry.

shoshi said...

Well jews for jesus are pro-Israel...

Lubab No More said...

Here is a video on fundamentalist Christians and Israel.
I think Jews should be a whole lot more wary of "support" from the evangelicals.

> You want to tell me that Obama didn't know what was going on in that church every Sunday?

I hear racist things said from the pulpit at my shul. Does that mean that I agree with it? Obviously not. Do I know its happening? Yes. Do I publicly denounce it or leave my community? No.

Palin is a problem for me mainly because her policies don't work (take her stand on abstinence for example). If what people listen to at their place of worship is an issue for someone than they should hold Palin up to the same light as they did Obama.

WebGirl said...

I watched the YouTube video and I'm still at a loss as to why Evangelical support of Israel is a real problem. I understand why it's a philosophical and theological problem. But practically speaking, why is it a problem? In real terms, they have done nothing other than give us money and support. What do I care if it's based on some theological belief with which I don't agree? There are many theological beliefs that evangelicals hold with which I don't agree. It has nothing to do with anything. Their money is green. Their support is real. They know that Jews don't buy the whole Second Coming thing. We are united in a common cause: ensuring the survival of the State of Israel. Why doesn't this work?

As far as what's said in your's funny that you bring that up. I was just saying to my Ex the other day that if anyone videotaped any drash that our Rabbi delivered over the course of my shul membership and posted it on YouTube, I would still be able to run for political office. Even though I don't agree with everything my clergyman says (and who does?), nothing he has ever said has been offensive, disagreeable or out of line with my character. Frankly, the first time my Rabbi would ever make a racist or anti-American remark from the pulpit would be the last time I'd set foot in that shul. I mean that. I would never belong to a shul that wasn't in line with my overall approach to the world. There's a big difference with disagreeing with your Rabbi over the height of the mechitzah and hearing him say "God Damn America."

You should switch shuls. I know that this issue is purely academic anyway since I read your blog and the only reason you even belong to a shul is to please your wife, but I think hearing racist remarks from the pulpit would make my skin crawl.

That said, back to Palin. If her pastor brought in a J4J guy as a guest speaker, I'm not thrilled but I'm willing to overlook it. It's a one-time thing over which Palin had no control. I don't view it as dangerous or bringing her judgment into question. With Obama, it was not a freak, one-time guest speaker, it was his MINISTER. This man was there week after week, spouting this crap. Did Obama not find it offensive? Did he not know what was going on in his church?

Regarding abstinence not working, deeming a policy as a success or failure is all the way you slice it. You see, for thousands of religious high school kids, abstinence DOES work. Because they do abstain. Hell, it worked for me. I got through high school without getting pregnant or an std. Know why? Because I didn't have sex. Know why? Because my parents brought me up with the belief that sex belongs in the framework of marriage. I don't resent this belief. Having been married, I'm actually grateful for it. It's not for anyone and I'm not trying to impose it on anyone, but I believe that not sleeping around in high school and college made me a finer person.

Palin's daughter did have sex. So she got pregnant. Now if you're saying that if Palin had taken a more progressive approach and told her 17 year old daughter that it was okay to sleep with her boyfriend as long as she used birth control, would that have stopped her from getting pregnant? Maybe. No guarantees. Birth control is not always effective and even if Palin had done that, there is no assurance that Bristol would have used it or used it properly. How do we know? Because every year, underage teens who have been "properly" educated in birth control do get pregnant. But to say abstinence doesn't work isn't fair. Like everything else, sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn't.

Every parent knows that no matter how hard they try with their kids, they cannot absolutely control what they do. Bristol's teenage pregnancy is definitely at least partly Sarah and Todd Palin's responsibility. But that's life and that's bringing up kids. They did what they could and Bristol messed up. What does this have to do with Palin's qualifications for the Vice Presidency?

YM said...

Pentacostalism is not an evangelical Christian denomination; it is a fundamentalist denomination. Evangelical and Fundamentalist, although they share certain similarities, are not the same. FWIW, Palin does not consider herself a Pentacostalist, even though she attends an Assembly of God church, which is Pentacostalist, I believe. Politically, Palin is a conservative pragmatist, not a conservative idiologue. She has not interfered with sex education in the Alaska public schools, nor with their libraries, nor has she tried to get the public schools to teach creationism, even though she believes that it should be taught.